Roger Montgomery, like many others who enter the homosexual lifestyle, was molested as a child by an older homosexual. An addiction to the pornography his parents kept in the home solidified his homosexual desires.
Ankerberg: Good evening. Tonight you're going to hear part of Roger Montgomery's last interview. Roger knew he was dying of AIDS when he left his hospital bed and came and taped this program. In fact, he died just a few days after speaking the words that you will hear tonight. In our private conversation, he took me into the dark and desperate world of homosexuality. You're going to hear why he was adamant that Jesus Christ is the only answer for the homosexual. Tonight you're also going to meet the woman that he fell in love with and who married him in spite of the knowledge that he had AIDS. During our interview, I asked Roger when did he know that he had AIDS and this is what he said.
Montgomery: About four and a half years ago I had the test officially done and they told that I had the virus. But when I had the test done I knew that I had AIDS because I had had so many sexual contacts.
Ankerberg: How many sexual contacts do you think you had along life's way?
Montgomery: Probably over 1,000 different sexual contacts.
Ankerberg: Now the folks that watched just awhile ago on the Spong/Martin debate I'm sure they're saying, "Well, Rog, you're losing weight." How much weight have you lost since the debate.
Montgomery: Since the debate, probably about 10 to 15 pounds.
Ankerberg: Ten to 15 pounds. And let's go back, Rog, you have come out of the homosexual lifestyle. Let's go back to the beginning. How did you get into it? Or where did it begin?
Montgomery: Well, my story begins about the same place every other homosexual's story begins and that's with a sexual molestation as a child by an older homosexual. Homosexuals are recruiters and that's how I entered into the lifestyle. At first it was very painful for me, but afterwards I began to seek out his sexual encounters and to enjoy our relationship.
Ankerberg: Now you came out of a pretty wonderful home and yet there were some influences in that home that also helped your homosexual orientation. Tell us about that.
Montgomery: Unfortunately, my parents kept pornography in the house, or in the home. And I became involved very quickly and addicted to their pornography.
Ankerberg: And that kind of fed the desires, is that correct?
Montgomery: Right. It did. Pornography is what consumed me more than homosexuality. It sort of engulfed me and drove me and led me to where I would end up.
Ankerberg: Now did your folks know about the next door neighbor that molested you?
Montgomery: No, I never told my parents and they never tried to find out what was going on. I kept it a secret and I handled it myself or so I thought I handled it.
Ankerberg: How come you didn't tell them?
Montgomery: Well, I was afraid to because most of the time it was, "Well, are you doing something dirty or is someone else doing something dirty to you?" And mainly just fear. I didn't want anybody to know what I was doing or what I was up to.
Ankerberg: Now along the way though, as this man continued to molest you, what happened?
Montgomery: I began to enjoy his relationship and any time I refused his relationship he would strangle me till the point of passing out where I would almost, almost die, I thought, when I refused his advances. And finally we, as a family moved to a different part of town, and he still lives in the exact same place he did, but I haven't seen him since.
Ankerberg: Okay. And as you were going through high school, what did you feel about yourself at that time?
Montgomery: Well, at that point, early in our relationship, I began to term myself as homosexual because that's the only sexual feeling or sexual orientation I had. But as I went through high school, my peers quickly realized that I was homosexual and began to call me names like "fairy" and "homo" and "gay," etc., which was really devastating to me as a young student.
Ankerberg: So is it true then, that you didn't have any heterosexual desires?
Montgomery: No. I never had a heterosexual desire in my life until I met Christ, especially when I was a young person. The only sexual orientation, desire I had was for men. It was not for women at all.
Ankerberg: Because that's one of the questions that many of the homosexuals that will be watching will say, "Well, you really weren't truly a homosexual..."
Montgomery: Right.
Ankerberg: "...if you came out."
Montgomery: Well, I'm accused of that all the time of not truly being a homosexual, but I never had any sexual desires for women, plus over 1,000 contacts with men. I mean if I'm not a homosexual there is no such thing as a homosexual: or, "If I was not" a homosexual.
Ankerberg: All right. Tell us about high school and then you went to college. What was happening in your life sexually?
Montgomery: Well, pornography had consumed me at that point and it was driving me. But I saw within myself the desire for God because I wanted to be reunited with God because I knew my homosexuality separated me from God. So I began to seek after God but could not find deliverance. My first semester in Bible college my roommate and I became homosexual lovers.
Ankerberg: In other words, after high school you went to Bible school. Why did you go to Bible school as a homosexual?
Montgomery: Because the homosexual community is a very religious community. They seek after God. They desire God and that's exactly the way I felt. I knew I was homosexual and that I was alienated from God but I was trying to reconcile myself to God in my own way. But it was impossible to do.
Ankerberg: So you didn't find any deliverance at Bible school. The message didn't get to you or anything.
Montgomery: No. There was no deliverance at Bible school because for one thing, homosexuality was taboo and it was avoided completely as an issue.
Ankerberg: And yet you had a roommate and you had a homosexual relationship with...
Montgomery: Right. I had more than one homosexual relationship in Bible college. It was a very frequent thing there.
Ankerberg: And as a result what happened?
Montgomery: As a result I was expelled from three different schools. He was expelled. And at that point I thought that God would not help me or He could not help me. So I actually looked up in the sky one day and cursed God and told Him that He was a liar, that He was weak, and there was nothing He could do to change me, that He was no God at all. And immediately after I did that I had lost my job and I became homeless and started living on the streets of Dallas, Texas.
Ankerberg: Now that anger toward God, is that usual in the homosexual community?
Montgomery: Yes it is. Most homosexuals are very angry at God and the heterosexual community and the church because they felt that they've been denied almost all of their life their true feelings.
Ankerberg: They're feeling that God, He made them that way.
Montgomery: Right. That God made them that way, and He cannot help them, and yet He demands change is what most of them truly believe.
Ankerberg: You never chose the homosexual lifestyle. In other words, you never came to a spot where you said, "Here's homosexuality. Here's heterosexuality." You just grew up and you realized that that was where you were at.
Montgomery: Right. I would never make the statement nor would any other homosexual that I know of that he choose between homosexuality and heterosexuality. Most homosexuals are not -- they are not born gay, but very early in their life most homosexuals realize who they are or begin to think that's who they are.
Ankerberg: Okay. Now we're going to talk more about that in some of the other programs we're going to do together. But you became disillusioned with God even though you were in religious institutions and you went to church and you came out of a good family. You just felt it didn't work. And this is the way that you were and after you cursed God and you left Him, then you went further down the road of homosexuality. What happened?
Montgomery: Well, I found the gay bars and became involved in homosexual activity and then I went immediately into prostitution to support myself because, being homeless, I had to have some sort of income and prostitution for a young male is very easy in the city to do.
Ankerberg: And basically... Why is it that you turned to prostitution?
Montgomery: Well, because I didn't want to work. I wanted to be in the gay bar. I wanted to be around gay people. I didn't want to have any outside contact with heterosexuals at all.
Ankerberg: What was going on in your life, in terms of the desires that you felt? Must have been awfully strong.
Montgomery: Yeah. At that point when I cursed God I totally gave myself over to homosexuality. There was no more reserve. I felt freer than I had in years because there was no longer that guilt there that bound me, or so I thought there wasn't. And I gave myself over to homosexuality and began to practice it full force. And not many people in the gay community went to the extent that I did, but I did, I ran the full gamut.
Ankerberg: Now you were living in Dallas then you moved to Chicago is that correct?
Montgomery: Right I was living in Dallas where I went to college and then, as I was hitchhiking across the country, I ended up in Chicago and stayed there because Chicago is a very easy town for prostitutes to make it in.
Ankerberg: And so you made your living as a prostitute. What did you do with the money?
Montgomery: Well, I would spend sometimes $1,000 a week on cocaine. I had a very severe cocaine and alcohol habit. But whether I ate or not didn't make any difference to me. All that made a difference was my sexual contact. "Was I going to be around gay people or was I going to be able to sexually meet them?" was the only thing that concerned me at all.
Ankerberg: When you went into the bathhouses and so on, how many sexual encounters would you have in an evening?
Montgomery: Well, when I was in the gay lifestyle, AIDS wasn't really prevalent. But when I was there I could meet as many as fifty people in one evening and have sexual contact with them. I wouldn't go through the whole sexual act but I would meet them sexually and we could encounter each other.
Ankerberg: The next morning when you would wake up, were you fulfilled?
Montgomery: No. I was never sexually satisfied or fulfilled as a homosexual. That's why I had so many sexual contacts because I was always looking for the perfect person to meet my needs. But that person never came along. And I never met the perfect homosexual which so many homosexuals are looking for today -- that one person who will fulfill their needs and their desires. But that person never comes along. It's a fantasy. It's a lie.
Ankerberg: Then, talk to this thing, Rog, of in that condition was that all that it's cracked up to be? Some people would say, "Well, boy, you were really enjoying life." Were you?
Montgomery: No. People thought I was and I thought I was at times. But the homosexual community very frequently after they're through with you, they discard you and that's exactly what happened to me.
I was the bad boy among the homosexuals. So I was frequently turned out and discarded. And at that point that's where I found Christ because I was on the streets of Chicago. I had a cocaine habit, an alcohol habit, and I was enslaved to sin and Christ came to me seeking me. I didn't go out seeking Him because religion had never worked for me before. So Christ came seeking after me.
Ankerberg: Okay. I mean all the stuff you've been through, Bible school three different times, got kicked out...
Montgomery: Religion did not help at all.
Ankerberg: What was the thing that was different that Christ told you this time that you hadn't heard in all this religion before?
Montgomery: Well, when Christ came to me I always thought that I had to change myself to be acceptable to God. But Christ came to me and He told me, He said, "I can come to God as I am -- a homosexual." And He will accept me. And He will do the changing. Not me myself trying to produce this out of self effort or self will. But that Christ could do it through me and in me if I would believe in Him. And I said, "Yes, Lord I believe."
Ankerberg: And so you realized that Christ could forgive you of your sins, the penalty of your sins, and you accepted that. Did you change immediately in terms of your desires of homosexuality? Did you immediately become a heterosexual? Or what happened?
Montgomery: No. When I received Christ I did immediately become heterosexual, but I did not have heterosexual feelings. Because the Scripture teaches once a person receives Christ that person is a new man right there on the spot. But those old feelings still remained and I had to seek out, through the Scripture, God's way of changing who I was or who I felt like I was.
Ankerberg: So what you're saying is even though Christ said you're a new creature, you didn't feel like one.
Montgomery: Right. I didn't feel like one.
Ankerberg: You just had to take His word for it.
Montgomery: But by faith I had to accept that fact that I was a new creation. And that I was no longer homosexual, but heterosexual.
Ankerberg: Okay. What would you advise to people that are homosexuals when the accept Christ what is the process of change? What happens?
Montgomery: Romans Chapters 6, 7 and 8; the person has to accept by faith who he is in Christ. "If any man be in Christ, he is a new creation." He's a new creature. He's new now. He's different.
And the homosexual person has to accept that by faith no matter what he feels. And then when he accepts it by faith he begins to every day learn to draw Christ's strength and not his own strength, not his own self effort or his own self will. But what Christ has for him. And Christ has a new life for him. He has heterosexuality. He doesn't want homosexuality for any person.
Ankerberg: While you were a homosexual, what were your feelings toward women?
Montgomery: I had utter disgust for women. Women...
Ankerberg: All women?
Montgomery: All women.
Ankerberg: Hated them?
Montgomery: Right. I did not like women at all because they interfered in my sexual pursuit of men.
Ankerberg: So how long a period of time from the time that you accepted Christ and asked Him to forgive you of your sins and start to change you, did you realize that your desires, your whole orientation was changing?
Montgomery: Well, it was a little over a year. The first year was the hardest year that I ever went through in my life. It was a withdrawal period and it was very, very difficult. And I couldn't understand why God wouldn't immediately deliver me, but now I'm glad He didn't because I began to know Him in a real and a personal way. But after about a year I met my wife -- which did not make me heterosexual. I was heterosexual when I met her. And once I began to realize the secret that Christ could do this through me, that I didn't have to do it, change came almost immediately.
Ankerberg: How did you meet Renee?
Montgomery: I was doing a nursing home ministry and Renee came to our church through a friend of ours and she began to help with the ministry. She would be the singer. And we became friends.
Ankerberg: Renee, did you know when you first met Roger he was a homosexual?
Renee: No, I had no idea.
Ankerberg: Had no idea. When did you figure that out?
Renee: Well, I didn't figure it out. We had begun to date and soon after we dated, maybe a couple of weeks after dating, Roger called me one night and told me of his lifestyle and told me that he was HIV positive.
Ankerberg: In other words, that you had the AIDS. So somewhere in there you actually went and got the test and you checked it out and you found out that you had the AIDS.
Montgomery: Right.
Ankerberg: And then you told her?
Montgomery: Right. I told her immediately because I felt she had the right to know if she was going to continue in [the] relationship.
Ankerberg: Okay. Renee, when he told you that what went through your mind?
Renee: Well, I believe that God had been preparing my heart for this all along because the only thing that went through my mind, Roger just mentioned that verse from 2 Corinthians 5:17 "If any man be in Christ, he is a new creature. Old things have passed away, behold all things are become new." And that was the only thing that went through my mind as he told me. And I accepted it. I was ready for it. I believe God had prepared me for it. And...
Ankerberg: How did you think though in terms of you must have recognized that him having HIV and being positive and testing and so on that he's going to die, okay? And if you have sex with this man, you should get it, too, and you will die. You knew that going in.
Renee: Right. I did know it. But I know it's difficult to understand, but I loved Roger and I still do very much and I felt if he died I didn't want to stay either because I know, I know where I'm going and I know where he's going and I wanted to be with him.
Ankerberg: And so you guys married.
Renee: Yes.
Ankerberg: And now you have two children.
Montgomery: We have two healthy children, yes.
Ankerberg: Okay. Now, Roger, what, you're 29 years of age?
Montgomery: Thirty.
Ankerberg: Thirty years of age, okay. You almost died last week. We almost didn't get to do this program, okay. How do you put this thing together of death that's coming your direction very quickly and the pain and the family. What are the things that keep you going?
Montgomery: Well, first of all, I thought this would be an easy disease because every time I've been in the hospital I had recouped very quickly. Last week I didn't recoup quickly at all and I'm just now really beginning to understand how terrible it is for everyone. But what keeps me going is the fact that this life is not all there is. There is more. When I close my eyes in death, I'm going to open it on the other side. And I'm going to see Christ who forgave me and died for me.
Ankerberg: Okay. You actually now have the brain lesions that are coming in and great pain that's attached to that and...
Montgomery: And PCP which is pneumonia.
Ankerberg: And so you continue to lose the weight and you can see your body just kind of deteriorating on you.
Montgomery: Right.
Ankerberg: How do you face that each day when you wake up?
Montgomery: Well, that's the hardest thing, looking in the mirror at myself every day. But every day I have hope. Since I've had AIDS, since I've known I've had AIDS, over four years, have been the happiest years of my life because Christ is with me every day in a very real way. I don't have to pretend or I don't have to build up because Christ is there supporting me and my wife and my children every day. It's been the happiest four years of my life.
Ankerberg: You have two children now and one is how old?
Montgomery: One is 18 months old and the other is 7 weeks old.
Ankerberg: Seven weeks old. And both of them have been tested and both of them are negative. Is that correct?
Montgomery: Right.
Renee: Right.
Ankerberg: So God has spared you Renee, and the kids as of this point.
Renee: Right.
Ankerberg: And what do the doctors say about that?
Montgomery: Well, they're confounded. They can't understand why Renee hasn't contracted the virus and especially why our children haven't. But we know why.
Ankerberg: Have you talked about the fact that when you do die, Rog, and they're left alone, how have you talked about facing that. Maybe, Renee, you need to answer that one.
Renee: Well, it's very difficult. This is a very painful time for us. And I just don't... I just pray every day that God would heal Roger and that he wouldn't have to leave us because I don't know what the future holds and it's very frightening for me.
Ankerberg: You told me something last night about this last week when you saw Roger there. Tell the folks how you feel about when you see him suffering.
Renee: I wish it were me when I look at him lying in that bed. It's such a helpless feeling that you can't do anything. And letting go is the most difficult part of it.
Ankerberg: We're going to talk in another program about this whole aspect of should you have married and even though you were in love and all the pain and emotion, Renee, we're going to save that for another time. But God led you to do it and you knew it going in with your eyes wide open. And, Rog, even though you've come down with AIDS and you're suffering like mad right now, yet you also told me that these last couple of years, what have they been like for you?
Montgomery: They've been the most wonderful years of my life knowing Renee and getting to experience my children is one of the most fulfilling, most wonderful years I ever could imagine. Christ has done more for me than I ever thought or dreamed that He could do.
Ankerberg: The general consensus today, Rog, of the secular folks as well as people in the church is that Christ might be an answer for certain problems, but homosexuality you've got to have psychoanalysis, you've got to have professional counseling and even then ten percent of the population is probably just going to be that way. What do you say to these people that say "Well, they're just born gay. They just are that way. And they can't change. And we ought to just learn to live with them that way."
Montgomery: Well, that's what the church is coming to believe and what most people. . .because there haven't been many homosexuals at all that have changed, even Christians. But what the world doesn't understand and what most homosexuals don't understand is that if we have the guts, the audacity to ask God for deliverance through Jesus Christ that He will give it to us.
Ankerberg: You've come out and how have you stayed out? In other words, there must have been temptations that came your way. How did you face those temptations?
Montgomery: Well, being heterosexual is not a frantic pretense at all. In other words, a very real matter. There were temptations but the temptations were not very strong at all in order to drive me back because I had a very real sustenance. I had Christ sustaining me. I had friends, I had loved ones that cared about me. And I knew what the lifestyle was really like and I didn't want to go back. But it wasn't a pretense at all. It was something that was very real. Heterosexuality was very real to me. And that's what I wanted. I did not want the homosexual lifestyle any longer.
Ankerberg: So from a straight homosexual background with no desires toward women when you accepted Christ, [over a] period of time He actually transformed and changed you, gave you a new orientation.
Montgomery: Right.
Ankerberg: And so you switched from a homosexual to a heterosexual and actually started to hate the other background and took on a wife and children you now have a family and you have also been able to stay pure in terms of the temptations that have come along which we're going to talk about more as we go along. As we leave the air tonight, what's one thought you would like to say to many people that just feel hopeless without any hope and they have the strong desires that you know about and I can't think of a blacker picture than what you painted for us and Christ changed you and brought you out of that. What would you say to people that are listening right now?
Montgomery: I would say I would not stay with Christ if He could not deliver me and save me on the inside because that's what Christianity is all about -- being changed on the inside. And I have experienced and I know, as a reality, that Christ can change a person on the inside, not just his outward behavior but who he is. And that's what I challenge everyone that's dealing with homosexuality to deal with honestly before Christ. Come to Him and say, "If you are who you claim to be, change me. If you can't change me, then this is a joke." It is not a joke.